Yes, and it's really important to understand it - to some extent it's similar to Putin's followers in ruzzia. And I would add another point, that's valid imo - Trump also officialised and validated the "right to be an a$$hole supremacist". Supremacist is every sense, that do not need doubts about morale, ethics and "right and wrong".
Godwin was suggesting a "reductio ad hitlerum" thus trivialising the comparison. This is not what is happening here. Hitler happens to be the best known fascist. But many of his actions, especially pre-1939, are in danger of receding into the mists of time. And as the saying goes, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
The major difference I see between Trump and Hitler is this: Hitler used what amounted to a private army of thugs to kill his political enemies, especially after the Reichstag fire in 1933 and the subsequent suspension of civil liberties. Trump and his supporters, on the other hand, are more often than not on the receiving end of political violence. Unlike Hitler, Trump has explicitly avoided war and violent means to achieve political goals. Obviously this could change. A person would be foolish to say that it couldn’t. But so far the Trump/Hitler comparison requires you to overlook the elephant in the room: Trump hasn’t actually employed violence as a political tactic.
“More often on the receiving end” is an outright lie.
Trump’s Gestapo is ICE. They are LITERALLY snatching people off the street, without due process, and shipping them to foreign gulags that are de facto concentration camps.
I grant your point about the foreign gulags. It’s an accurate description based on what I know. It would have been better to simply repatriate them to their countries of origin and let the host governments sort out the rest.
I don’t know enough about the law regarding deportation or the ICE internal administrative review process to know whether or not ICE has complied with the law with respect to its deportations. It is my understanding that illegal immigrants who have been convicted of crimes do not require judicial review to be deported. If I am mistaken, please let me know. I would like to be corrected if I am.
I am amused by your use of the phrase “snatching people off the street.” What are they supposed to do? Send an email and request the convict turn himself in? How do you think ICE arrested people under Biden? Under Obama? Under Bush? Are the police in my city the “mayor’s Gestapo” when they handcuff someone they’ve pulled over for speeding and he turns out to have an unregistered handgun in the glove compartment? Was that a “snatch”? Is the mayor a fascist?
Trump and Hitler are never going to be "the same". Of course. Times change, and American culture in the 21st century is rather different from that of 1930s Germany. But the comparison is the point. We see what Trump is doing and we see what Hitler did.
We could also try and compare Trump with any other political leader we chose. But strangely, Hitler is the comparison that seems to resonate most strongly for a lot of people.
Most people couldn’t state three facts about Hitler. They are finely attuned to the sentiments of their friends, who also couldn’t state three facts about Hitler, but are quite zealously certain that Trump and Hitler are cut from the same cloth (they “resonate”). Then all these like minded people enthusiastically reinforce one another’s opinion, as this Substack makes clear.
Presented with the obvious rejoinder to the Hitler (political violence as the primary means) vs. Trump (rejection of political violence) comparison, they tell you “no comparison is perfect.” This passes as thinking, but I would describe it as having thoughts. It’s like going out in the rain. You aren’t raining. You’re getting wet.
Trump organized and instigated the January 6, 2021 failed insurrection and assault on the Capitol. In addition he has regularly encouraged his supporters to attack critics and protesters. Asking authorities to shoot peaceful protesters in Freedom Plaza so he could walk across the street to hold a Bible upside down. Just because he hasn’t been as effective at using violence to attack his opponents and critics as Hitler was, doesn’t mean he isn’t aspiring to that level of control. The foreign and domestic concentration camps he is setting up indicate his intentions. Look at the regime’s proposed budget!
A political protest that turned into a mob riot. I agree that it was an example of political violence, but it was unplanned, unprecedented, followed by nothing - I think it embarrassed the people who showed up that day, to be frank - and the only example you have. Many Trump supporters, on the other hand, have been chased, beaten, spit on - and in one case murdered - for simply disagreeing with people who hate and fear Trump.
True, though. Funny how there are sooooo many instances coming up these days. We don't even need Godwin, it's the first thing a lot of people think about where Trumpery is concerned.
Now I read he is considering suspending habeas corpus to more easily deport immigrants. In that, I will grant you, he differs from Hitler in that H simply ignored it.
Sometimes, sure: Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Yahya Sinwar, Kim Il Sung, Pavelic, Chiang Kai-shek, Mussolini obviously, Ceausescu, Konoye maybe. But Trump? How can any serious person say with a straight face that he belongs in this gallery based on his conduct as president? Yes - many people are as scared of him as if he were “just like Hitler” but it’s 100% based on what he might do. My neighbor might be a serial killer. I can’t prove that he’s not. The fear of Trump is not based on actual analysis. It’s based on mob emotion. If Trump starts governing like a tyrant then I will concede that he is one. I haven’t seen it yet, and neither has anyone else. Doesn’t mean it can’t happen - just means it hasn’t, no matter how many times Godwin gets trotted out.
Oh get real. Trump behaves as a perfectly average mainstream Republican (well, tariff policy excepted, but that has no bearing on fascism) but you maintain that he is “really” a fascist? In spite of the evidence? What “we have seen” = the evidence = our best approximation of reality. Evidence - what we “have seen” - is all we have. If you do not rely on evidence to inform your model of reality what do you rely on?
I could not help but notice you left Putin out of your list of bloody dictators. Could it be because you are trying to cover for Putin’s Apprentice? Putin’s Apprentice, a person who paid for advertisements attacking our NATO allies after visiting the Soviet Union, whose business were kept afloat by Russian oligarchs and mafia using them for money laundering after the banks stopped lending him money, and a Russian oligarch close to Putin provided funding for his “Truth Social” to keep it from failing before it went public.
Powerful and insightful. As an outside, it seems to me it's like people are watching their favourite reality show- they're so invested in it that they can't brook any criticism or suggestion it might be taken off air. I guess the key point is how to target the emotional infrastructure. It doesn't seem that it being done at the moment
tRump 1.0/2.0 are in fact reality shows, he's the MC and chief character, and he invents the "reality" to which all must succumb. Politics as infotainment.
This is the most insightful analysis of the Trump phenomenon I have read, and I completely agree. Having close associates who idolize Trump, I have observed the same dynamics at play - it is rooted in a deep alignment of fundamental values; as the article says a resonance of desire for social dominance and narcissm. It is indeed a cult based on a bonding of souls.
Central to the MAGA mindset is white Christian supremacy. They deplore and fear the prospect that other races and ethnic groups will achieve social, economic or political equality. They believe the government tries to make that happen, to their detriment. Trump telegraphed his racism early on with birther lies, then Mexican rapists invading unchecked, support for Confederate monuments, asking why not shoot BLM protesters, insulting black elected officials, and recently promoting refugee status for South African whites. He believes, like his MAGA followers, in great replacement theory. He is the champion of those who insist on white superiority and dominance.
Perhaps not in your intended scope, but I feel like resentment is glossed over a bit, and cultural/economic/educational resentment-turned-hatred has been weaponized. Tearing down museum exhibits which run contrary to the new/old narrative is also simply the act of punching someone who said bad things about you. This is naked revenge at least as much as a fascist agenda to construct a myth.
This is a great summary, thank you. I think I have read similar ideas before, though probably not all in one place. I have a question, though: if the MAGA faithful have their whole identity wrapped up in Trump, what are they going to do when he’s gone? (He’s not immortal.) Do they transfer their identity to someone else? It’s hard to see anyone immediately filling their psychological needs post-Trump. Does their identity just collapse? How do they handle it and how do they behave?
They will most likely try to transfer their authoritarian devotion to someone else, but there doesn't seem to be a candidate that will have the same appeal.
Great question. I really wonder about this based on trump’s health and age. What would all his supporters do with their need for scapegoats? His older sons are too weak and there are no charismatic figures that could fill the hole he would leave.
All true. But I had to laugh at the “charismatic” reference. I know people say Trump has charisma but holy crow I can’t see it! He’s the most anti-charismatic person I think I’ve ever seen. 😬
I think that’s why the maga attach to him so much I also call it the John Gotti affect the more he was prosecuted the more the public loved him. The maga idea of charisma is not the same as ours.
I just had a very disturbing conversation with a distant relative who is very deeply MAGA.. Reading this article directly after is both reassuring as well as terrifying. I am stuck today contemplating in what way we can use this information to confront it? Because while I was calm and simply asked if she had heard of such things as Curtis Yarvin or Neoreactionism, she ignored the question and moved to themes that I am very very concerned with. Something is brewing in deep MAGA country and she said herself "it's about to explode." At least she told me to stay safe... I guess..
I'm slightly surprised there hasn't been more violence from MAGA so far. (Although, certainly plenty of sadism and cruelty on display, plus violence of a sort from ICE.) I wonder some form of Jan 6 style violence is brewing.
“Understanding this doesn’t excuse it. But it does make it possible to confront it, by targeting not just the misinformation, but the emotional infrastructure that keeps it alive.”
Thanks to you and others we have a clear understanding of MAGA. We have a clear understanding of Hitler’s blueprint being put in place daily.
So how do we confront “misinformation” when facts are simply irrelevant ?
How do we confront the “emotional infrastructure” that is immune to any rational thought ?
Without the ability to answer these to questions all our “understanding”, existential, psychological, does not create effective resistance.
Each day we add to our “understanding” is another day lost. Another day in which we secede our power.
Please address these two questions with the same excellence of your analysis.
"MAGA is not merely a right-wing movement, it is a full-spectrum identity ecosystem built on loyalty, grievance, and manufactured narratives of moral clarity." So: how is this different from radical left-wing fundamentalism, a.k.a. Wokism?
That’s really easy. What you call wokeism is actually a movement calling for empathy and compassion about the experiences of others who may be different from us. The MAGA movement demonstrates rage and hatred of others who are perceived as different, and creates permission to act out and hurt the Other. For example, deportations of children with cancer, demonstrating extreme lack of empathy or compassion.
I have to push back a bit on the idea that enthusiastic MAGA types can be accurately characterized as motivated by “rage and hatred.” Obviously, in a nation of 330 million people, it’s always going to be possible to find a few examples of unhinged people. But if you think about the specific individuals you know who voted for Trump, do they really seem to you to be full of “rage and hatred”? Maybe they are! But even then - are all of them? That has not been my experience. The author talks about “motivated reasoning,” wherein people arrive at the conclusions they want to reach in defiance of the actual conditions in the world. Is the “rage and hatred” explanation accurate? Or is it the endpoint of motivated reasoning? In order to answer thus question honestly a person really has to compare the theory to the individuals he knows personally.
No. Not really. In your mind perhaps. But in reality it has been the left that lacks compassion. You do not respect true diversity. For you, diversity is just a quotation system based on you arbitrary divsion of people into groups. It is not the MAGA movement that has tried to shut down free speech, read alternative ideas. That was / is you side.
I can't tell whether you are arrogant or just naive, but you seem to think that one side, your side, has all the right answers. Yet you ignore the real harm done to this society done by the Biden administration and those that supported it.
Real harm is a woman in Texas with a malformed fetus that is not viable, forced to carry the pregnancy to term. It’s police officers beaten with clubs in an attempted coup and their attackers pardoned and rewarded.
You might talk to some actual minorities instead of getting your opinions fed to you by right wing pundits if you want to understand the realities impacting folks who aren’t as privileged as you.
I don’t recall Biden deporting a child and US citizen undergoing cancer treatment.
Or hiring an anti-vax, conspiracy theorist nut job to run HHS as measles and bird flu outbreaks are happening.
Or bringing in an unelected billionaire and his tech bros to indiscriminately fire tens of thousands of civil servants, including the ones who keep planes from crashing into each other, and to cut off food and medicine for the world’s poorest children.
Or disregarding a judicial order not to send people to a gulag in El Salvador with no hope of due process claiming all of them are dangerous gang members when 75% have no criminal record anywhere.
This is just the things off the top of my head. There are many more.
You are ok with all of this b/c the “woke” idea that we should encourage and embrace diversity is somehow worse? That is so bat-shit crazy that all your comment does is provide another data point that supports the premise of the OP.
Ha ha you’re delusional and just prove the author’s point. You MAGAts hate the thought that women, or God forbid, black peoples might reach the same level of prosperity as you.
What exactly was the democrats doing when they burned down cities. Raging hatred towards half the people in this country that voted for Trump.
Maybe if y’all had acted out all that with love and kindness y’all would not be looking at Trump right now. Instead y’all were told to get up in people faces. Rage and hate. Scream at the top of your lungs and protest with pussy hats.
It’s truly amazing that y’all finger point and project your own worse behaviors onto MAGA.
Lets end this right now. Far-right terrorism significantly outpaces ALL other forms of terrorism in the US. In a paper by S.T.A.R.T, they found, "radical acts perpetrated by individuals associated with left-wing causes are less likely to be violent."
"All the extremist-related murders in 2022 were committed by right-wing extremists of various kinds, who typically commit most such killings each year but only occasionally are responsible for all "
Burned down what cities?! What precipitated the protests? People watched a wyt officer put his knee on a black man’s neck for more than 9 minutes, though the man was on his stomach with his hands cuffed behind his back. Do you want to talk about pure hatred? It was viewed all across the world and people all across the world came out and protested. But, you want to focus on a few instances of property destruction? That’s more important than the life of a human being? Why?
It is funny watching the MAGA commenters systematically and unconsciously confirm the explanation for why they are the way they are, but its just so sad that they will never be able to see or admit how badly they have screwed all of us including themselves.
Paraphrasing a quote that was mis-attributed to the new liberal Canadian PM that Trump got elected: The people who voted for Trump have done real and lasting damage to the United States and the world that will take generations to recover from in exchange for essentially nothing.
"Hitler was a socialist" is such a disingenuous statement. Hitler was no more a socialist than Stalin was a communist. They used them as vehicles for their agenda. If capitalism would've worked better Hitler would've used capitalism.
Talking about trumps mistakes is not the same as holding him accountable. What would it take for you to actually say, "Nope, this is enough," and stop supporting Trump?
I do not support Trump at this time. However, do you have someone in mind? And if so, how do we get that person elected? We can’t. It’s that simple. Now, pick your flavor.
Trans insanity, DEI, Woke ideology, or god, country, and the American flag?
2030 is coming whether we like or not. Nothing gonna stop it. And Trump and JD Vance were set up to make that happen. It’s pretty obvious to me.
You’re a very nasty person. I suggest you work on your anger issues. You seem to have a problem with white Christians? And just like the left isn’t all woke, all Christians are not ignorant AF.
I suggest you find yourself a good therapist.
And possibly get out of your liberal woke TDS mind bubble.
You like to argue. I have just as much right to comment as you do. Right? Freedom of Speech and all. Right?
TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) isn’t a real diagnosis, it’s a rhetorical shield invented by MAGA loyalists to deflect any criticism, valid or not. It’s part of a broader psychological pattern called collective narcissism, where a group comes to believe their identity or worldview is unquestionably right, and anyone outside that group is seen as a threat. That’s why you keep bringing up trans people, “wokeness,” and other perceived enemies, they serve as convenient scapegoats to protect a fragile vision of America that can’t withstand self-reflection.
I loved Kamala as a presidential candidate and she was amazing during the debate with Trump. It was so clear how much smarter and saner she was than him. She was presidential in a way he could never be. She won that debate hands down. I also like that she never sexually assaulted anyone and was never convicted for fraud and never tried to overthrow the government because she couldn’t handle the fact that she lost the election. Kamala derangement syndrome is real, lol. People can’t handle a woman in power. But I don’t think we will see it the same way. To me, America threw away an opportunity when they didn’t elect her. I will always think well of her.
You’ve made so many false points in your post. Thanks for proving the author’s point. TDS is real. Ya’ll believe anything he sells you. We have a name for that in NYC. You’re a sucker. BTW, I have some NYC real estate to sell you.
Obviously, you don’t know me at all. Lots of assumptions on your part. This isn’t about Hitler, but it does tie into ww2.
Yes, Hitler was a leftist and he was funded by the technocratic elite.
Government efficiency has been planned for a long time. Elon’s daddy was a technocrat. FDR was a technocrat. And I’m betting that what Trump and Elon is working on. They called it government efficiency back in the thirties.
Did Hitler care about all people? Or was it an illusion until he could rule with iron fist? The nazis associated Jewish people as liberal, socialist, or communist. If the Jewish person was seen as a leftist, either Hitler was bullshitting or there was more at play and you either don't know, or you know and can't admit that using liberalism as a scapegoat is the shared connection. The latter makes you look horrible from a historical perspective
I’m not making any assumptions; I simply responded to your asinine post. Your words not mine. You said exactly what you said “was Hitler a socialist? Why yes, yes he was.” I won’t be clicking YouTube videos. I studied European History. Now go kick rocks.
Wokeism is not hard to define. It comprises two principal beliefs. The first is the claim that individuals bear full moral responsibility for the actions of their ancestors or, more generally, people who belong to the same identity group. Secondly, wokeism asserts that individuals bear no responsibility for their individual achievements (or lack thereof). Because individuals bear no responsibility any variance in the distribution of goods or ills (wealth, university admissions, criminal arrests, diabetes, etc.) between a subgroup and the general population (“inequity”) is ipso facto proof of systemic injustice. This injustice must be remediated by the state, private institutions, etc.
Wow. No wonder you don’t like wokeism. I wouldn’t like a system that proposes that one group is morally responsible for the failings of its ancestors. Or that people in a group that was discriminated against take no personal responsibility for their actions.
Fortunately for me and thousands of others, we are ‘woke’ when we have compassion and empathy for others, for their pain and their historical disenfranchisement. We aim to improve the injustices of history, not by blaming those who were part of these systems, but by looking with clarity at historical facts and seeking to change the present systems to move towards justice for all, not for a subset of people.
When you write "their historical disenfranchisement" do you mean "the disenfranchisement of their ancestors"? Or do you mean their disenfranchisement in the years before the advance of civil rights that benefited them personally? An example of the second group would be black Americans old enough to have experienced racial discrimination during the Jim Crowe era or gay people who weren't able to marry their partners before Obergefell v. Hodges more recently.
Why do you think Trump (a former democrat) has so many democrats in his cabinet, people who ran against him, people who criticized him in the past (like the VP)? Does it really jibe in practice with this idea of absolute loyalty?
Your didn't answer or address my question, because it's a hard question.
You answered the question: "Why would democrats work for Trump?"
My question was: "Why would Trump bring so many former opponents into his cabinet?"
My question is hard to answer because it requires you to acknowledge that Trump is actually quite flexible. You might even say he is forgiving, or if not forgiving, opportunistic. Rubio, Vance, Kennedy, Gabbard were all critics in the past. Trump reminds me of Bill Clinton in a certain way: he leads from the gut. He's not an ideologue.
Do people in your life tell you that you don’t listen? They should. You don’t listen. You don’t know to converse. Your conversational strategy is to ignore what your partner is saying while you lecture. Find someone else with whom to pretend you’re engaged in discussion. I’m done.
You are mistaken. Scott Bessent, Robert F. Kennedy, and Howard Lutnick are all Democrats. Tulsi Gabbard may have changed her party affiliation? (I'm actually not sure about that last one, so it's at least 3 cabinet members.)
Ha ha ha Kennedy is no Democrat! None of them represent the Democratic Party. You’re so disingenuous with your Fox talking points. Give it a rest buddy.
You are a slippery eel. Of course they don't represent the democratic party! You're changing the subject again. The question is: are any of Trump's cabinet members of the Democratic party? It's a simple factual question. Either there are or there aren't.
You are right about Kennedy: he changed his party affiliation from Democratic to Independent in 2023. Also, Tulsi left the Democratic party and joined the Republicans in 2024. That still leaves Bessent and Lutnick. I can't find anything solid, and it might be that they have become Republicans in order to be part of the administration. I'd like to know the facts.
You? I don't know. You seem to be one of those insufferable partisans who never, ever, ever concedes any point, no matter how small, because for you it's not really about determining what's true; it's about your tribe winning. You're welcome to it. But for me, the facts matter, and I don't see in Trump a politician with a long memory when it comes to bringing his critics in house. Whatever their party.
The same playbook could be applied to Israel, which arguably has been made that much more effective as Hamas plays into the hands of Netanyahu and the far right. In this case the results are deadly.
Just a great affirming article. I always sensed the fear factor as a primary cause of their devotion. I have a real life example:
I had a neighbor from a couple blocks away. Retired, disabled veteran, Maga to the hilt. We walked our dogs together and constantly bantered politics, etc. He routinely was against everyone and would voice it.
One day he whispers to me, "Your gonna hate me". And He says," Fuck Diversity!" This was way back when that crap was just growing wings. I burst out laughing.
I have him this speech : I said, Frank! Look around you. That corner house is Muslim, the other corner is African American, Italian American across the street. You took in the mail for the Jamaican women across the street while she was vacationing in the homeland. WTF is the matter with you?
He was afraid of anyone he did not know. Yet he walked the walk... Amazing. He had a good side, despite.
You know, I hear you, I really do. I wonder if there is a far simpler explanation. His reality TV show allowed Trump to become a better business man in the eyes of the public and people can't tell the difference between that and our current political theater. Trump behaves badly so they take that as tacit approval of their own bad behavior. Sort of like young girls seeing 90 pound models in an advertisement and believing that's how all women should look.
I think that his reality show was a huge influence, as you say. The MAGAts in NYC that I know have never watched his show. The show made him look more successful than he really is.
Is it possible to have a conversation with a Trump supporter that makes them self aware, shows them their delusion in a way they can understand? I don't think it's possible, but I'm open to suggestions. This is the best piece I've read on the mind of MAGA. I'm glad to have this information. But what can I do with it? How can I use this knowledge to make change?
Yes, but it's similar to deprogramming a cultist. Also, the research shows conservatives takes low effort thought, which is why you see liberals tend to think analytically; so we have to find a way for them to think analytically. Usually it takes asking questions that makes them think deeper than face value.
Yes, and it's really important to understand it - to some extent it's similar to Putin's followers in ruzzia. And I would add another point, that's valid imo - Trump also officialised and validated the "right to be an a$$hole supremacist". Supremacist is every sense, that do not need doubts about morale, ethics and "right and wrong".
And it's what Hitler did in Germany.
That was fast!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Godwin was suggesting a "reductio ad hitlerum" thus trivialising the comparison. This is not what is happening here. Hitler happens to be the best known fascist. But many of his actions, especially pre-1939, are in danger of receding into the mists of time. And as the saying goes, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
The major difference I see between Trump and Hitler is this: Hitler used what amounted to a private army of thugs to kill his political enemies, especially after the Reichstag fire in 1933 and the subsequent suspension of civil liberties. Trump and his supporters, on the other hand, are more often than not on the receiving end of political violence. Unlike Hitler, Trump has explicitly avoided war and violent means to achieve political goals. Obviously this could change. A person would be foolish to say that it couldn’t. But so far the Trump/Hitler comparison requires you to overlook the elephant in the room: Trump hasn’t actually employed violence as a political tactic.
Wait… wuht?
“More often on the receiving end” is an outright lie.
Trump’s Gestapo is ICE. They are LITERALLY snatching people off the street, without due process, and shipping them to foreign gulags that are de facto concentration camps.
I grant your point about the foreign gulags. It’s an accurate description based on what I know. It would have been better to simply repatriate them to their countries of origin and let the host governments sort out the rest.
I don’t know enough about the law regarding deportation or the ICE internal administrative review process to know whether or not ICE has complied with the law with respect to its deportations. It is my understanding that illegal immigrants who have been convicted of crimes do not require judicial review to be deported. If I am mistaken, please let me know. I would like to be corrected if I am.
I am amused by your use of the phrase “snatching people off the street.” What are they supposed to do? Send an email and request the convict turn himself in? How do you think ICE arrested people under Biden? Under Obama? Under Bush? Are the police in my city the “mayor’s Gestapo” when they handcuff someone they’ve pulled over for speeding and he turns out to have an unregistered handgun in the glove compartment? Was that a “snatch”? Is the mayor a fascist?
Trump and Hitler are never going to be "the same". Of course. Times change, and American culture in the 21st century is rather different from that of 1930s Germany. But the comparison is the point. We see what Trump is doing and we see what Hitler did.
We could also try and compare Trump with any other political leader we chose. But strangely, Hitler is the comparison that seems to resonate most strongly for a lot of people.
Most people couldn’t state three facts about Hitler. They are finely attuned to the sentiments of their friends, who also couldn’t state three facts about Hitler, but are quite zealously certain that Trump and Hitler are cut from the same cloth (they “resonate”). Then all these like minded people enthusiastically reinforce one another’s opinion, as this Substack makes clear.
Presented with the obvious rejoinder to the Hitler (political violence as the primary means) vs. Trump (rejection of political violence) comparison, they tell you “no comparison is perfect.” This passes as thinking, but I would describe it as having thoughts. It’s like going out in the rain. You aren’t raining. You’re getting wet.
Trump organized and instigated the January 6, 2021 failed insurrection and assault on the Capitol. In addition he has regularly encouraged his supporters to attack critics and protesters. Asking authorities to shoot peaceful protesters in Freedom Plaza so he could walk across the street to hold a Bible upside down. Just because he hasn’t been as effective at using violence to attack his opponents and critics as Hitler was, doesn’t mean he isn’t aspiring to that level of control. The foreign and domestic concentration camps he is setting up indicate his intentions. Look at the regime’s proposed budget!
January 6th 2020.
A political protest that turned into a mob riot. I agree that it was an example of political violence, but it was unplanned, unprecedented, followed by nothing - I think it embarrassed the people who showed up that day, to be frank - and the only example you have. Many Trump supporters, on the other hand, have been chased, beaten, spit on - and in one case murdered - for simply disagreeing with people who hate and fear Trump.
True, though. Funny how there are sooooo many instances coming up these days. We don't even need Godwin, it's the first thing a lot of people think about where Trumpery is concerned.
Now I read he is considering suspending habeas corpus to more easily deport immigrants. In that, I will grant you, he differs from Hitler in that H simply ignored it.
Godwin is a jerk!
Sometimes the comparison is valid tho, Mr. Godwin’s genius notwithstanding
Sometimes, sure: Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Yahya Sinwar, Kim Il Sung, Pavelic, Chiang Kai-shek, Mussolini obviously, Ceausescu, Konoye maybe. But Trump? How can any serious person say with a straight face that he belongs in this gallery based on his conduct as president? Yes - many people are as scared of him as if he were “just like Hitler” but it’s 100% based on what he might do. My neighbor might be a serial killer. I can’t prove that he’s not. The fear of Trump is not based on actual analysis. It’s based on mob emotion. If Trump starts governing like a tyrant then I will concede that he is one. I haven’t seen it yet, and neither has anyone else. Doesn’t mean it can’t happen - just means it hasn’t, no matter how many times Godwin gets trotted out.
Reality is not determined or affected by what you “have not seen”, per the “argument from ignorance” logical fallacy.
Oh get real. Trump behaves as a perfectly average mainstream Republican (well, tariff policy excepted, but that has no bearing on fascism) but you maintain that he is “really” a fascist? In spite of the evidence? What “we have seen” = the evidence = our best approximation of reality. Evidence - what we “have seen” - is all we have. If you do not rely on evidence to inform your model of reality what do you rely on?
I could not help but notice you left Putin out of your list of bloody dictators. Could it be because you are trying to cover for Putin’s Apprentice? Putin’s Apprentice, a person who paid for advertisements attacking our NATO allies after visiting the Soviet Union, whose business were kept afloat by Russian oligarchs and mafia using them for money laundering after the banks stopped lending him money, and a Russian oligarch close to Putin provided funding for his “Truth Social” to keep it from failing before it went public.
Nope. Putin is definitely a fascist. My bad.
Powerful and insightful. As an outside, it seems to me it's like people are watching their favourite reality show- they're so invested in it that they can't brook any criticism or suggestion it might be taken off air. I guess the key point is how to target the emotional infrastructure. It doesn't seem that it being done at the moment
tRump 1.0/2.0 are in fact reality shows, he's the MC and chief character, and he invents the "reality" to which all must succumb. Politics as infotainment.
It’s BS. MAGA is loyal to America. We support the man who is also loyal.
This is the most insightful analysis of the Trump phenomenon I have read, and I completely agree. Having close associates who idolize Trump, I have observed the same dynamics at play - it is rooted in a deep alignment of fundamental values; as the article says a resonance of desire for social dominance and narcissm. It is indeed a cult based on a bonding of souls.
You may be a member of a cult if-
Central to the MAGA mindset is white Christian supremacy. They deplore and fear the prospect that other races and ethnic groups will achieve social, economic or political equality. They believe the government tries to make that happen, to their detriment. Trump telegraphed his racism early on with birther lies, then Mexican rapists invading unchecked, support for Confederate monuments, asking why not shoot BLM protesters, insulting black elected officials, and recently promoting refugee status for South African whites. He believes, like his MAGA followers, in great replacement theory. He is the champion of those who insist on white superiority and dominance.
Perhaps not in your intended scope, but I feel like resentment is glossed over a bit, and cultural/economic/educational resentment-turned-hatred has been weaponized. Tearing down museum exhibits which run contrary to the new/old narrative is also simply the act of punching someone who said bad things about you. This is naked revenge at least as much as a fascist agenda to construct a myth.
This is a great summary, thank you. I think I have read similar ideas before, though probably not all in one place. I have a question, though: if the MAGA faithful have their whole identity wrapped up in Trump, what are they going to do when he’s gone? (He’s not immortal.) Do they transfer their identity to someone else? It’s hard to see anyone immediately filling their psychological needs post-Trump. Does their identity just collapse? How do they handle it and how do they behave?
They will most likely try to transfer their authoritarian devotion to someone else, but there doesn't seem to be a candidate that will have the same appeal.
Great question. I really wonder about this based on trump’s health and age. What would all his supporters do with their need for scapegoats? His older sons are too weak and there are no charismatic figures that could fill the hole he would leave.
All true. But I had to laugh at the “charismatic” reference. I know people say Trump has charisma but holy crow I can’t see it! He’s the most anti-charismatic person I think I’ve ever seen. 😬
I think that’s why the maga attach to him so much I also call it the John Gotti affect the more he was prosecuted the more the public loved him. The maga idea of charisma is not the same as ours.
I can't see or hear it either - the sight or sound of him - or Vance - or actually most of these people, elicits nausea for me, to put it politely.
Stephen Miller, Kash Patel, RFK, Kristi Noem, and Tulsi Gabbard. It makes me sick to hear them speak. They are all predatory sociopaths.
You have a point. 🤣
I just had a very disturbing conversation with a distant relative who is very deeply MAGA.. Reading this article directly after is both reassuring as well as terrifying. I am stuck today contemplating in what way we can use this information to confront it? Because while I was calm and simply asked if she had heard of such things as Curtis Yarvin or Neoreactionism, she ignored the question and moved to themes that I am very very concerned with. Something is brewing in deep MAGA country and she said herself "it's about to explode." At least she told me to stay safe... I guess..
I'm slightly surprised there hasn't been more violence from MAGA so far. (Although, certainly plenty of sadism and cruelty on display, plus violence of a sort from ICE.) I wonder some form of Jan 6 style violence is brewing.
This is excellent !
What concerns me is your last paragraph:
“Understanding this doesn’t excuse it. But it does make it possible to confront it, by targeting not just the misinformation, but the emotional infrastructure that keeps it alive.”
Thanks to you and others we have a clear understanding of MAGA. We have a clear understanding of Hitler’s blueprint being put in place daily.
So how do we confront “misinformation” when facts are simply irrelevant ?
How do we confront the “emotional infrastructure” that is immune to any rational thought ?
Without the ability to answer these to questions all our “understanding”, existential, psychological, does not create effective resistance.
Each day we add to our “understanding” is another day lost. Another day in which we secede our power.
Please address these two questions with the same excellence of your analysis.
Lack of understanding is no longer a challenge…
See my comment. Combine what we learned from this with this Substack: https://open.substack.com/pub/willrobinson/p/the-forgotten-playbook-for-fighting?r=1ukhw&utm_medium=ios
Thank you. Well done and extremely valuable.
Thank you for taking time to share.
I look forward to more of your thoughts and writing.
"MAGA is not merely a right-wing movement, it is a full-spectrum identity ecosystem built on loyalty, grievance, and manufactured narratives of moral clarity." So: how is this different from radical left-wing fundamentalism, a.k.a. Wokism?
That’s really easy. What you call wokeism is actually a movement calling for empathy and compassion about the experiences of others who may be different from us. The MAGA movement demonstrates rage and hatred of others who are perceived as different, and creates permission to act out and hurt the Other. For example, deportations of children with cancer, demonstrating extreme lack of empathy or compassion.
I have to push back a bit on the idea that enthusiastic MAGA types can be accurately characterized as motivated by “rage and hatred.” Obviously, in a nation of 330 million people, it’s always going to be possible to find a few examples of unhinged people. But if you think about the specific individuals you know who voted for Trump, do they really seem to you to be full of “rage and hatred”? Maybe they are! But even then - are all of them? That has not been my experience. The author talks about “motivated reasoning,” wherein people arrive at the conclusions they want to reach in defiance of the actual conditions in the world. Is the “rage and hatred” explanation accurate? Or is it the endpoint of motivated reasoning? In order to answer thus question honestly a person really has to compare the theory to the individuals he knows personally.
Jan 6 defecating in the Capitol.
Jan 6.
You’re kidding, right? Look at the people who took part in Jan 6th. MAGA’s hate is palpable.
Do you know any of the people who took part in Jan 6th?
No, of course not. I don’t associate with terrorists.
No. Not really. In your mind perhaps. But in reality it has been the left that lacks compassion. You do not respect true diversity. For you, diversity is just a quotation system based on you arbitrary divsion of people into groups. It is not the MAGA movement that has tried to shut down free speech, read alternative ideas. That was / is you side.
I can't tell whether you are arrogant or just naive, but you seem to think that one side, your side, has all the right answers. Yet you ignore the real harm done to this society done by the Biden administration and those that supported it.
Real harm is a woman in Texas with a malformed fetus that is not viable, forced to carry the pregnancy to term. It’s police officers beaten with clubs in an attempted coup and their attackers pardoned and rewarded.
You might talk to some actual minorities instead of getting your opinions fed to you by right wing pundits if you want to understand the realities impacting folks who aren’t as privileged as you.
The left lacks compassion?
I don’t recall Biden deporting a child and US citizen undergoing cancer treatment.
Or hiring an anti-vax, conspiracy theorist nut job to run HHS as measles and bird flu outbreaks are happening.
Or bringing in an unelected billionaire and his tech bros to indiscriminately fire tens of thousands of civil servants, including the ones who keep planes from crashing into each other, and to cut off food and medicine for the world’s poorest children.
Or disregarding a judicial order not to send people to a gulag in El Salvador with no hope of due process claiming all of them are dangerous gang members when 75% have no criminal record anywhere.
This is just the things off the top of my head. There are many more.
You are ok with all of this b/c the “woke” idea that we should encourage and embrace diversity is somehow worse? That is so bat-shit crazy that all your comment does is provide another data point that supports the premise of the OP.
Ha ha you’re delusional and just prove the author’s point. You MAGAts hate the thought that women, or God forbid, black peoples might reach the same level of prosperity as you.
#BuhBye
Back under your rock, MAGAT. Your pretzel Logic and prevarication doesn’t fly here.
What exactly was the democrats doing when they burned down cities. Raging hatred towards half the people in this country that voted for Trump.
Maybe if y’all had acted out all that with love and kindness y’all would not be looking at Trump right now. Instead y’all were told to get up in people faces. Rage and hate. Scream at the top of your lungs and protest with pussy hats.
It’s truly amazing that y’all finger point and project your own worse behaviors onto MAGA.
I saw actual rage and hate on Jan 6.
I saw a bunch of ignorant idiots.
The real violence happened during the summer of love.
But, let’s not forget the violence at St. John’s Episcopal Church.
All this finger pointing needs to stop.
Lets end this right now. Far-right terrorism significantly outpaces ALL other forms of terrorism in the US. In a paper by S.T.A.R.T, they found, "radical acts perpetrated by individuals associated with left-wing causes are less likely to be violent."
https://www.start.umd.edu/publication/comparison-political-violence-left-wing-right-wing-and-islamist-extremists-united
Here are the 2023 numbers on extremism. Far-right extremism runs rampant again.
https://www.start.umd.edu/profiles-individual-radicalization-united-states-pirus-keshif
"All the extremist-related murders in 2022 were committed by right-wing extremists of various kinds, who typically commit most such killings each year but only occasionally are responsible for all "
https://www.adl.org/resources/report/murder-and-extremism-united-states-2022
Burned down what cities?! What precipitated the protests? People watched a wyt officer put his knee on a black man’s neck for more than 9 minutes, though the man was on his stomach with his hands cuffed behind his back. Do you want to talk about pure hatred? It was viewed all across the world and people all across the world came out and protested. But, you want to focus on a few instances of property destruction? That’s more important than the life of a human being? Why?
Ha ha nice try. You just proved the author’s point.
It is funny watching the MAGA commenters systematically and unconsciously confirm the explanation for why they are the way they are, but its just so sad that they will never be able to see or admit how badly they have screwed all of us including themselves.
Paraphrasing a quote that was mis-attributed to the new liberal Canadian PM that Trump got elected: The people who voted for Trump have done real and lasting damage to the United States and the world that will take generations to recover from in exchange for essentially nothing.
Exactly what I was thinking… TDS is real.
What they do not get is that we do talk about Trump mistakes among ourselves, but we are not willing to go there with the woke left.
No way!
The other thing… who the hell wanted to vote for Kamala?
Trump won because of the behavior of the woke left.
Now, he is gonna bring in the technocracy. And the stupid Democrats will cry foul. But, they created the monster.
These libs have a twisted version of “right wing fascism”
And was Hitler a socialist?
Yes, why yes, he was…
"Hitler was a socialist" is such a disingenuous statement. Hitler was no more a socialist than Stalin was a communist. They used them as vehicles for their agenda. If capitalism would've worked better Hitler would've used capitalism.
Talking about trumps mistakes is not the same as holding him accountable. What would it take for you to actually say, "Nope, this is enough," and stop supporting Trump?
I do not support Trump at this time. However, do you have someone in mind? And if so, how do we get that person elected? We can’t. It’s that simple. Now, pick your flavor.
Trans insanity, DEI, Woke ideology, or god, country, and the American flag?
2030 is coming whether we like or not. Nothing gonna stop it. And Trump and JD Vance were set up to make that happen. It’s pretty obvious to me.
So, pick your flavor..
You’re a very nasty person. I suggest you work on your anger issues. You seem to have a problem with white Christians? And just like the left isn’t all woke, all Christians are not ignorant AF.
I suggest you find yourself a good therapist.
And possibly get out of your liberal woke TDS mind bubble.
You like to argue. I have just as much right to comment as you do. Right? Freedom of Speech and all. Right?
Go smoke a joint and chill out.
Come back when you are not so triggered.
TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) isn’t a real diagnosis, it’s a rhetorical shield invented by MAGA loyalists to deflect any criticism, valid or not. It’s part of a broader psychological pattern called collective narcissism, where a group comes to believe their identity or worldview is unquestionably right, and anyone outside that group is seen as a threat. That’s why you keep bringing up trans people, “wokeness,” and other perceived enemies, they serve as convenient scapegoats to protect a fragile vision of America that can’t withstand self-reflection.
I loved Kamala as a presidential candidate and she was amazing during the debate with Trump. It was so clear how much smarter and saner she was than him. She was presidential in a way he could never be. She won that debate hands down. I also like that she never sexually assaulted anyone and was never convicted for fraud and never tried to overthrow the government because she couldn’t handle the fact that she lost the election. Kamala derangement syndrome is real, lol. People can’t handle a woman in power. But I don’t think we will see it the same way. To me, America threw away an opportunity when they didn’t elect her. I will always think well of her.
She exceeded my expectations as an intelligent, compassionate and thoughtful candidate.
Name calling instead of making an argument. Hope we can do better than that.
She a tool. An idiot, and a racist. Nice try though…
You’ve made so many false points in your post. Thanks for proving the author’s point. TDS is real. Ya’ll believe anything he sells you. We have a name for that in NYC. You’re a sucker. BTW, I have some NYC real estate to sell you.
You give us the best of shallow thought
Obviously, you don’t know me at all. Lots of assumptions on your part. This isn’t about Hitler, but it does tie into ww2.
Yes, Hitler was a leftist and he was funded by the technocratic elite.
Government efficiency has been planned for a long time. Elon’s daddy was a technocrat. FDR was a technocrat. And I’m betting that what Trump and Elon is working on. They called it government efficiency back in the thirties.
https://youtu.be/b18xsQVVgxk?si=wfRn-FpBM4SXrCeZ
https://youtu.be/xO-JX-jASls?si=Je8x-fxkdrqLAeEb
Did Hitler care about all people? Or was it an illusion until he could rule with iron fist? The nazis associated Jewish people as liberal, socialist, or communist. If the Jewish person was seen as a leftist, either Hitler was bullshitting or there was more at play and you either don't know, or you know and can't admit that using liberalism as a scapegoat is the shared connection. The latter makes you look horrible from a historical perspective
I’m not making any assumptions; I simply responded to your asinine post. Your words not mine. You said exactly what you said “was Hitler a socialist? Why yes, yes he was.” I won’t be clicking YouTube videos. I studied European History. Now go kick rocks.
lol, your a riot. Sticks and stones baby. Sticks and stones.
Wokeism is not hard to define. It comprises two principal beliefs. The first is the claim that individuals bear full moral responsibility for the actions of their ancestors or, more generally, people who belong to the same identity group. Secondly, wokeism asserts that individuals bear no responsibility for their individual achievements (or lack thereof). Because individuals bear no responsibility any variance in the distribution of goods or ills (wealth, university admissions, criminal arrests, diabetes, etc.) between a subgroup and the general population (“inequity”) is ipso facto proof of systemic injustice. This injustice must be remediated by the state, private institutions, etc.
Wow. No wonder you don’t like wokeism. I wouldn’t like a system that proposes that one group is morally responsible for the failings of its ancestors. Or that people in a group that was discriminated against take no personal responsibility for their actions.
Fortunately for me and thousands of others, we are ‘woke’ when we have compassion and empathy for others, for their pain and their historical disenfranchisement. We aim to improve the injustices of history, not by blaming those who were part of these systems, but by looking with clarity at historical facts and seeking to change the present systems to move towards justice for all, not for a subset of people.
In your mind.
When you write "their historical disenfranchisement" do you mean "the disenfranchisement of their ancestors"? Or do you mean their disenfranchisement in the years before the advance of civil rights that benefited them personally? An example of the second group would be black Americans old enough to have experienced racial discrimination during the Jim Crowe era or gay people who weren't able to marry their partners before Obergefell v. Hodges more recently.
You sound nuts 🤣
Thanks…My comment is directed at the OP. He asked the rhetorical question. He can answer it then.
Are you a totalitarian?
I applaud the effort, but you might as well be trying to reason with a monkey with a toothache.
In Chinese, there is a saying (referring to CCP): if the loyalty is not absolute, then it is absolutely disloyal.
Why do you think Trump (a former democrat) has so many democrats in his cabinet, people who ran against him, people who criticized him in the past (like the VP)? Does it really jibe in practice with this idea of absolute loyalty?
Because they were grifters and opportunists and saw more potential marks in the MAGA Republican party?
Because Democrats wouldn't elect a draft dodging serial cheater sex felon as their leader?
Get serious.
Your didn't answer or address my question, because it's a hard question.
You answered the question: "Why would democrats work for Trump?"
My question was: "Why would Trump bring so many former opponents into his cabinet?"
My question is hard to answer because it requires you to acknowledge that Trump is actually quite flexible. You might even say he is forgiving, or if not forgiving, opportunistic. Rubio, Vance, Kennedy, Gabbard were all critics in the past. Trump reminds me of Bill Clinton in a certain way: he leads from the gut. He's not an ideologue.
He didn't bring them anywhere. They followed his grift. Sorta like the devil tempting the weak, and telling them they have free will.
There's a difference. You might or might not know it based on your response.
Do people in your life tell you that you don’t listen? They should. You don’t listen. You don’t know to converse. Your conversational strategy is to ignore what your partner is saying while you lecture. Find someone else with whom to pretend you’re engaged in discussion. I’m done.
Stop nagging me, please.
How many Democrats are in Trump’s cabinet? None.
You are mistaken. Scott Bessent, Robert F. Kennedy, and Howard Lutnick are all Democrats. Tulsi Gabbard may have changed her party affiliation? (I'm actually not sure about that last one, so it's at least 3 cabinet members.)
Ha ha ha Kennedy is no Democrat! None of them represent the Democratic Party. You’re so disingenuous with your Fox talking points. Give it a rest buddy.
You are a slippery eel. Of course they don't represent the democratic party! You're changing the subject again. The question is: are any of Trump's cabinet members of the Democratic party? It's a simple factual question. Either there are or there aren't.
You are right about Kennedy: he changed his party affiliation from Democratic to Independent in 2023. Also, Tulsi left the Democratic party and joined the Republicans in 2024. That still leaves Bessent and Lutnick. I can't find anything solid, and it might be that they have become Republicans in order to be part of the administration. I'd like to know the facts.
You? I don't know. You seem to be one of those insufferable partisans who never, ever, ever concedes any point, no matter how small, because for you it's not really about determining what's true; it's about your tribe winning. You're welcome to it. But for me, the facts matter, and I don't see in Trump a politician with a long memory when it comes to bringing his critics in house. Whatever their party.
Yeah, nice try buddy. You’re disingenuous and you’re just proving this article as even more correct. Go take ur meds, you need them.
The same playbook could be applied to Israel, which arguably has been made that much more effective as Hamas plays into the hands of Netanyahu and the far right. In this case the results are deadly.
Right on!!
Here’s my snarky & short open letter saying much the same from a few weeks ago
https://open.substack.com/pub/noelkeith/p/tranquil-piece-of-mind-vol-2-no-4?r=4c7psw&utm_medium=ios
Every time I see or read a trump supporter interview, I lose brain cells. I’m not sure how many, but they go up in smoke.
Just a great affirming article. I always sensed the fear factor as a primary cause of their devotion. I have a real life example:
I had a neighbor from a couple blocks away. Retired, disabled veteran, Maga to the hilt. We walked our dogs together and constantly bantered politics, etc. He routinely was against everyone and would voice it.
One day he whispers to me, "Your gonna hate me". And He says," Fuck Diversity!" This was way back when that crap was just growing wings. I burst out laughing.
I have him this speech : I said, Frank! Look around you. That corner house is Muslim, the other corner is African American, Italian American across the street. You took in the mail for the Jamaican women across the street while she was vacationing in the homeland. WTF is the matter with you?
He was afraid of anyone he did not know. Yet he walked the walk... Amazing. He had a good side, despite.
It doesn’t sound like “rage and anger” really capture the full character of this man.
You know, I hear you, I really do. I wonder if there is a far simpler explanation. His reality TV show allowed Trump to become a better business man in the eyes of the public and people can't tell the difference between that and our current political theater. Trump behaves badly so they take that as tacit approval of their own bad behavior. Sort of like young girls seeing 90 pound models in an advertisement and believing that's how all women should look.
I think that his reality show was a huge influence, as you say. The MAGAts in NYC that I know have never watched his show. The show made him look more successful than he really is.
Is it possible to have a conversation with a Trump supporter that makes them self aware, shows them their delusion in a way they can understand? I don't think it's possible, but I'm open to suggestions. This is the best piece I've read on the mind of MAGA. I'm glad to have this information. But what can I do with it? How can I use this knowledge to make change?
Yes, but it's similar to deprogramming a cultist. Also, the research shows conservatives takes low effort thought, which is why you see liberals tend to think analytically; so we have to find a way for them to think analytically. Usually it takes asking questions that makes them think deeper than face value.